Okay, so, perfect awesome convenient pretty blond girl with a close connection to the Doctor who shows up randomly and rocks everybody's socks off; I was, shall we say, a little wary of this. But, you know, on reflection, I kind of liked her. Not sure if I want her to get a spin-off, but hey, maybe a come-back episode in a couple seasons. Cute kid you've got there, Peter Davison. Let's give her a chance.
At first, I was also wary of Martha's immediately-getting-captured, but then she pretty much immediately un-captured herself and used Brains and Medical Skills and Friendliness to Get Stuff Done, and it is pretty much impossible for me to object to that, so well done, Stephen Greenhorn.
Donna using leet temp skills to save the day: have I mentioned, lately, how much I love you? Because I do. I love the way you don't immediately scream and cling to the Doctor, I love the way you think about stuff, I love the way you can still get excited and awed by things, I love the way you can be completely serious (and yet, still funny, for I shall never get tired of it) about you and the Doctor Not Being A Couple, I just love you. And that is why I want to yell at you for saying you're going to stay with the Doctor forever. Don't say things like that. Rose said things like that! Look what happened to Rose. Hell, we don't even know all of what happened to Rose yet. BUT I BET IT WASN'T GOOD.
...please don't die? Please? You're too cool to die, and it would be stupid if you died, but I don't know how else they're going to get you to leave. Not the Jamie and Zoe way, please, for the love of god, not the Jamie and Zoe way. Pretty much the only way I will accept you leaving is if you move to Sarah Jane's neighborhood and join her posse and become the other badass alien-seeking mama figure in town. (Although I don't know if she'd make much of a good mother figure. Still. It could happen.)
And now it is time for my music geekery: Martha's theme just gets used everywhere, doesn't it? I'm trying to track down what it actually means--not just Martha any more, obviously; maybe something to do with science, or fighting? But the other bit of Significant Music, oh hoh, we know what that means, Doctor, you and your drumbeats. Clever composer.
So. The Doctor's kids. Plural? Times like this, I really wish they'd bothered to give even some kind of an explanation for Susan, unless they actually did and I've never heard of it, which is entirely possible. And...that means Susan's dead, then? Jeez. I don't know her all that well, but...I don't want her to be dead. Same with Romana. First time I see Romana, all I can think is "well, she's dead now", and that's just depressing. But I guess there's no getting around it.
The mark on the back of the Doctor's hand looked a bit familiar, didn't it? It must have been a coincidence, because I can't think of any actual connection to 'The Empty Child' here, but surely they can't have just done it on accident. Hm.
I want to spell it 'Genny'. Can I spell it 'Genny'? Only maybe I actually want to spell it the normal way, I'm not sure. How about Jgenny? J/Genny? Tell you what, let's just go with Jenny, it's easier.
I agree that it's bad for Donna to be saying stuff like "forever." I cringed when I heard that. Seriously.
I didn't think she looked so much like Sally Sparrow as Susan from Coupling. I rather liked Jenny. She was kinda cool.
I was wary of this ep when I found out the "daughter" was more like a "clone." But by the end, I was pleased with the ep. I totally saw the Search for Spock end coming, though.
ROTFLOL about the Ten vid. And yes, he is, but he comes by it honestly - see One/Cameca! He always was an alien slutboy tease.
...please don't die? Please? You're too cool to die, and it would be stupid if you died, but I don't know how else they're going to get you to leave. Not the Jamie and Zoe way, please, for the love of god, not the Jamie and Zoe way
I can't decide what would distress me more, Donna dying or Donna leaving the Jamie and Zoe way. PLEASE, scriptwriters, find something else!
*loves Donna to distraction*
But the other bit of Significant Music, oh hoh, we know what that means, Doctor, you and your drumbeats. Clever composer.
I didn't pick that up until rewatching the episode, and then I went, "oohhhh, of course he hears the drums at this point". (Wheras I did pick up the use of "This is Gallifrey" both in the "two hearts" scene and later when he talks about his family. Which brings me to:
So. The Doctor's kids. Plural? Times like this, I really wish they'd bothered to give even some kind of an explanation for Susan, unless they actually did and I've never heard of it, which is entirely possible. And...that means Susan's dead, then? Jeez. I don't know her all that well, but...I don't want her to be dead
No, Old Who never detailed whether Susan's parent was the Doctor's daughter or son, just that she was his granddaughter. (In the 80s, when the asexualists came to power, there was some offscreen retconning about her not being his biological granddaughter, but that thankfully never made it to on screen canon, and New Who threw the whole looms concept out of the window again anyway. The original producer in the early 60s, Verity Lambert, said on the audio commentaries she did that of course Susan is his real, biological granddaughter.
The default assumption for Susan and any other Time Lord is that they're dead, yes, but since Utopia you can choose to believe some got fobwatched or fobwatched themselves as the Master did and thus are still around in human form. I think someone once speculated that Romana who was President in the end phase of the war might have fobwatched Susan and send her to safety somewhere but didn't have the time to tell the Doctor before Gallifrey went kablooey. Of course, that's assuming Susan returned to Gallifrey before the end. (We know she saw the Doctor - actually, several of him - at least once after their parting, in The Five Doctors, but not what became of her after that.)
Sally Sparrow: kattaj compared her to Elle, and I've seen comparisons to Romana as well. Me, I can't see either beyond the basic similar type (i.e. small, blonde, slender), but when the first icons went up, it struck me that she does look a lot like Davison, which it didn't when she was in constant movement during the episode.
...and since I'm still in a silly mood: you may already know this, but if you don't, check out the best use of Gallifreyan writing ever. Since then, I can't help noticing those post-it notes in the TARDIS with a grin on my face...
Oh, that is brilliant. Ainley certainly looks like he's having fun being the Master, though I'm not at all sure about the outfit...*wonders what this vid would be like if it included all the Masters, even Roberts*
Ah, the outfit. It was always a dead heat between the Doctor and the Master as to who had the worst dress sense in that period, though to be fair, since Ainley!Master snatched his body from someone else, that ruffled collar he wears in some of the clips weren't his idea, and no one trumps Six in the Worst Outfit Of All Times department.
There really should be an "I will survive" vid using all the Masters, it's so his song. In lieu of that, I offer one fun Delgado!Master vid (The Man in Black is another of those songs that had to be vidded for the Master), and one serious Doctor/Master vid, using mainly Ten and Simm!Master but also footage of the other ones in the middle section, and it's so far my favourite vid summing up their relationship through the incarnations:
The first vid makes me snicker uncontrollably; the second vid first makes me go "wait, I know that song!" and then "dude, Muse is totally the Master's favorite band" and then "okay so this is pretty much the greatest largely instrumental vid I have ever seen, omg". For serious, I would download both of them so I could watch them over and over again if I could...but the second one...wow.
I think you can still download the first one, as it's by calapine and she has hers up in lj entries, but alas not the second. And yeah, the second is so awesome and so far the vid on the subject. Theirloveissoepicandscrewedupbeyondbelief. Space Dementia indeed.
Yes, but One never actually got pinned against a wall by Cameca. Although that is probably because she was far more dignified than any of Ten's girls (with the possible exception of Joan).
In what way did New Who throw the looms thing out of the window? I don't think we've heard much of anything about reproduction, one way or another...and I do like the idea of Susan (or Romana, really) having been fobwatched, but, alas, it seems a bit of a cliched plot device at this point. *sighs* Still, one can hope. Certainly, if they keep mentioning Old Who things, they're going to have to reference Romana at some point.
Yes, but One never actually got pinned against a wall by Cameca. Although that is probably because she was far more dignified than any of Ten's girls (with the possible exception of Joan).
Ah, but Joan made him fall down the stairs by the sheer force of her presence.*g* Also, since One was the one who went to the Academy with the Master, there must have been against-the-wall-pinning. Or do you want to tell me they never did that when they were boys? Which brings me to:
In what way did New Who throw the looms thing out of the window?
By letting both the Doctor and the Master reference their childhood. The looms concept as far as I've been told was that Timelords basically get grown, err, woven, into full adults from the start. So when the Doctor said "we played with radiation in the nursery" in "Smith and Jones", that was already a blow, but then we saw the Master as a child in "Sound of Drums" and heard him say "do you remember, when we were kids..." etc. All of which meant that Time Lords went through a childhood and adolescence instead of doing the looms thing, and thus was book canon forever de-canonized.
Ahhhhhhh! One wonders, then, what they looked like when they were teenagers...or whatever the Time Lord equivalent of teenager is. Whatever it was, I bet the Master was the kind of teenager who wore moody makeup and wrote angsty poetry about the confines of society and how stupid his teachers were. (The Doctor, of course, was the slacker class clown who never paid attention to any of his lessons and only scraped by through sheer luck.)
The Doctor as a slacker when they were teenagers is canon.*g* See Three being embarassed at being reminded the Master had better grades at school in Terror of the Autons; later, Romana unearths some of the Doctor's degrees in pure mathematics, and they're just embarassing; and I think in some episode we also get it mentioned that he used to copy the Master's notes. Which makes Gothic!Master a bit unlikely, but otoh, he could have been EmoGoth and still done all his homework, I suppose.
...Another canonical detail: the one part of school they both had great fun with and went above and beyond the call of duty with were physical experiments (thus we learn in The Time Monster, where the Doctor when whipping up a machine to interrupt the flow of the Master's evil machine du jour and using tea bags, the Brig's tie and other stuff to build it has a fit of nostalgia and remisces how he and the Master used to do this all the time at school, and the Brig has his "too much information" face). So, in short, a pair of geeks?
BWAH. Of course, it is possible to be both EmoGoth and a good student; just because one hates the teachers doesn't mean one can't decide to get back at them through their own game. "Treat me like an idiot, will they? Well, we'll see who's the idiot now!" It is thoroughly undeniable, however, that no matter what they were like, they were total and complete geeks. I bet even the other Time Lords made fun of them.
Another part of my brain says, "physical experiments, eh? So that's what they're calling it these days..."
It is thoroughly undeniable, however, that no matter what they were like, they were total and complete geeks.
A while ago at a Doctor/Master community, someone wondered why they are so good at fencing (err, with metal swords, that is, not just with words) when the rest of Gallifrey seems to have seen sweat as something that happens to other people, leaving the question as to how they learned that sword-fighting thing. (And they are really good at it, both of them; in addition to Sea Devils, we get Gratitious Homeerotic Swordfighting in The King's Demon, just because they can.) I suggested that the Doctor somehow got a hold on a Star Wars download when they were teens and they promptly debated whether Jedi could take Time Lords and thought it looked ever so cool and had to be practiced at once. With self-build sabers, naturally.
I bet even the other Time Lords made fun of them.
Naturally! Mind you, War Games aside, the default interaction mode between the Doctor and any given Time Lord, and the Master and any given Time Lord seems to be instant bickering and sarcasm anyway. But we're still left with the impression that the Doctor and his ex are regarded as the two biggest embarassments of the planet. (Also that the nature of their relationship must have been a secret to no one; how else to explain that their old teacher in The Five Doctors suggests the Master is the ideal person to save the Doctor's life and the rest of the council agrees? They must have had the most public break-up ever.)
Oh, The Time Monster is a gold mine for double entendres. I mean, it opens with a scene in which the Doctor, lying on a divan, dreams of the Master leering at him. Which leads to:
Doctor: Brigadier, last night I dreamt of the Master. Brig: *has DO NOT WANT face* Doctor:...this has to mean something. Brig: Doctor, I don't see how this is relevant to the current crisis.
Also, to further proof the scriptwriter of The Time Monster was twelve, this is the episode where their TARDISes "interlock" and then there is something called "Time Ram".
I suggested that the Doctor somehow got a hold on a Star Wars download when they were teens and they promptly debated whether Jedi could take Time Lords and thought it looked ever so cool and had to be practiced at once. With self-build sabers, naturally.
You! Stop making me laugh, I have to go to school soon and it is unwise to burst out into laughter while you are driving. (But what did they think about the new movies? I bet the Doctor had a mournful moment when he realized he didn't have anyone to be disgusted with, until the Master saw them during those eighteen months and then had the same problem. Of course, the Master arranged a private screening during the Year That Wasn't, just for that very purpose, and the Doctor never told any of the others that that was one of the very few times during that year that he really laughed.)
They must have had the most public break-up ever.
I suspect bombs were used, as well as a serious consideration by either party of the use of memory-wiping devices (perhaps they even tried that, but of course it didn't last very long and only made the problem worse). The other Time Lords just decided to cordon off a section of the city and let them go at it. Best not to give the other students ideas, after all.
Dammit, I need to get through these episodes faster.
I love the prequels, but I entirely agree that the Doctor and the Master, being fanboys, would agree in their disgust (and wear a "Han shot first" t-shirt at the time). And private screening all the way, definitely. Complete with shared sandwich, for nostalgia's sake.
You know, I think I might actually write this story, if I knew anything more about the Academy. Probably I could just make stuff up, but it's always good to fact-check...*ponders*
*dies* THE SANDWICH. And the horrible music! And giving the Master back his sword! Oh, I've got to get to that episode. *grumbles at time constraints*
There is nothing like early 70s music on acid.*g* And I knew you'd like the sandwich bit. Faith and Buffy would empathize...
And giving the Master back his sword!
There is no way to interpret that but "this is fun, I don't want it to end yet, let's do it some more". That "you think so?" is as blatant a come-on as we ever hear from the Doctor.
Re: Academy - the Doctor/Master archive I persuaded you to post your story at has a link to a website with all the relevant facts. (And we don't really know that much, just little asides from the episodes - we never see it on screen.)
My god, that website is huge. And...completely incomprehensible! Assuming I've got the right one. In fact, given that it says things like--and I am not kidding, here--
The Doctor has vague memories of being all strung out in the Loom waiting to get out. He is dragged dripping and screaming from the Loom. The Doctor might have been a child at time of his looming. His first word might have been "Again." He remembers seeing his cousins laughing at him because he was the only Time Lord to have a belly button (it's an outie).
--I'm rather inclined to believe it's all some kind of horrible trick. I mean, really.
Ah, I didn't know it was using the discarded loooooooms canon from the Marc Platt novel. (Didn't have to research myself.) Give it up, boys, it's a lost fight.
In that case, better use wiki. They have good entries on all things Who and always give you the source (as in "in the novels, Ace dies; in the comics, she becomes a Time Agent; in the audios, she's still travelling with Seven; in conclusion, no definite canon on Ace post show!").
Good grief, didn't anyone give Donna the memo that spouting words like "forever" and wanting to be with the Doctor always are practically the kiss of death? No? Well, someone should because Donna rocks my socks off and I don't want to see her go. Not like that. Not ever, actually. Although I do sort of like your notion of having her join forces with Sarah Jane. Donna would be more of a loopy aunt than a mother figure, though. But damn it, if the scriptwriters pull a Tosh on her I will be infuriated beyond words...and will more than likely sob for a little bit like I did with Tosh. That was just mean of them, seriously.
On a related note, I tend to think of Susan and Romana as having valiantly died fighting in the war; same goes for the Doctor's children. But that's just because the sense of tragedy appeals to me and, in my mind, makes their deaths worthwhile.
Hmmm, maybe they had some decals left from "The Empty Child" and decided to toss one in there for good measure? Or maybe they did that on purpose because they knew Who fans would be clamoring over the detail.
And oh, Jenny. I called her Ms. Deus Ex Machina Sue when the episode started but by the end I'd completely fallen for the kid. Come to think of it, the only way I could possibly accept the departure of Donna would be if they made Jenny the Doctor's companion. It'd be a nice throwback to the One and Susan days, I think.
*sighs* I cry every time a companion leaves, even if it's just tearing up--Jo, Sarah Jane, Leela, Jamie and Zoe, Martha, hella with Rose, because they were trying to make that one fucking traumatic--and no matter what happens, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a little teary at the end of the season. Considering the inevitable Rose clusterfuck, probably a lot.
I like to think all the Time Lords died in some valiant or dramatic way or another. It just seems...sad, that any of them would just fizzle out in the fight. Quintuple for Susan and Romana, and let's throw Leela's boyfriend in there too, and fuck, what about Leela? *hangs head* Truly, it is not easy having yourself a good time.
Nrgh. Somehow, Jenny being the new companion just rubs me the wrong way. It's just...I don't know. The One and Susan thing worked because he was actually pretty good at being grandfatherly, whereas Ten, er, is not the kind of person I would leave in charge of my or anybody else's kids. Jenny's cool and all, but...no.
The inevitable Rose clusterfuck (nice way of putting it, by the way) is something I both look forward to and dread. On one hand, it means I'll have to batten down the hatches and steer clear of all the rabid Rose fangirls (which leads into a long discussion about the merits of all the Doctor's previous companions that I won't get started now). On the other hand, it should be interesting. Very interesting.
I think there must be some kind of unspoken rule that Time Lords are required to die in the most dramatic fashion possible. It wouldn't be like them otherwise. Leela! Oh, that depresses me. I'd forgotten that she chose to live on Gallifrey with her boyfriend. And what about the Rani?
I get the feeling that if Jenny ever did become the Doctor's companion the fact that Ten's not the most paternal would actually end up being the point of their dynamic. Wacky dad + mature daughter = antics ensuing. Or something like that. But as much as I'd get a kick out of Jenny in the TARDIS I doubt it'll ever happen. The writers would make her into a Mary Sue (assuming she wasn't designed as one to begin with). Half the fans would hate her and the other half would Mary Sue her. So alas, she'll just have to travel with the Doctor in the confines of my head.
I rather wish I hadn't known what the title was, but alas, it was necessary, as I had to download the thing and put it on DVD for the fam, plus I'd heard it before anyway...woe.
She even does look a bit like the guy, doesn't she? Terribly convenient, for him to have a daughter around the right age. :D That may even have been the inspiration for it...
Not sure if I want her to get a spin-off, but hey, maybe a come-back episode in a couple seasons. Cute kid you've got there, Peter Davison. Let's give her a chance.
Heh, when i saw the end of that episode, i was all, "SPIIIIIIIN OFFFFFF!" ;D And owing to the fact that i still haven't seen any of Sarah Jane Smith Adventures yet, i dunno if i'd ever get around to watching samesuch if they did make it.
But still, Peter Davison's daughter! How awesome is that? She totally has his eyes & impish grin, tha's all i have to say! (inspite of my annoyance at her popping out of the clone generator fully mascara'd ;P) Very aDORable & cute and stuffnthings (down girl, easy)
At first, I was also wary of Martha's immediately-getting-captured, but then she pretty much immediately un-captured herself and used Brains and Medical Skills and Friendliness to Get Stuff Done, and it is pretty much impossible for me to object to that, so well done, Stephen Greenhorn.
Well, of course. This is Martha we are talkin' about here. *squees over Martha some more*
Donna Love: Ohyes, i am coming to love her for all the same reasons.. particularly for bits like, "Oh, you have him speechless, go on, I'm loving this!" i'm still squeeing over Donna whacking him one good after the TriedToSacrificeHimself bit in the previous episode! ;D
So. The Doctor's kids. Plural? Times like this, I really wish they'd bothered to give even some kind of an explanation for Susan, unless they actually did and I've never heard of it, which is entirely possible.
This was the first time i have ever heard him make reference to offspring beyond the William Hartnell years... 'course i haven't seen the (*checks download* hm, has a ways to go yet) Patrick episodes yet and only a smattering of Colin Baker (mainly 'cause he grated so badly on me that i couldn't watch more that the little bits that i did :P) so maybe there's references there.
And as far as her being dead, i'm going with what Mel suggested & that's that p'raps she's "pocket-watched" like the Master was and may still show up? How awesome would that be, i ask you? :D
First time I see Romana, all I can think is "well, she's dead now", and that's just depressing. But I guess there's no getting around it.
Last i heard, she was still in E-Space and therefore would have been beyond the War, but i may be wrong about that. Either way, i refuse to accept that she may be dead from that as well. If the Master was smart enough to dodge it and the Doctor was able to dodge it, then there's no Freaking Way, Romana couldn't have.
I want to spell it 'Genny'. Can I spell it 'Genny'? Only maybe I actually want to spell it the normal way, I'm not sure. How about Jgenny? J/Genny? Tell you what, let's just go with Jenny, it's easier
i fairly squee'd over the dubbing her as "Jenny".. Little Sister reference & all that. (My sister is not really dead; she's totally a Time Lord. i can live with this. ayuppers.)
And, Hah! Those videos were great! Especially the Disney Master.. hadda make W watch that one as well! And he said that now someone needs to do The Master/Beware (also from the Lion King) ;D
And for my one parting AUUUUGH about this episode (courtesy of W): They totally blew a HUGE HHGttG reference.. you should know the one of which i speak 'cause it came up twice... when told That's Impossible! the Doctor totalllleeee should had said, "No, just very very Improbable!" *facepalms & falls over*
Oh, you've got to see at least the first couple episodes of The Sarah Jane Adventures before she shows up in DW again! They are totally adorable and she is awesomeness squared, yo. Plus there are UNIT references liek woah.
As far as I know, there really weren't any family references after One at all--once they realized they didn't really want to have the Doctor shown as a sexual being (incidents like Romana notwithstanding), they kind of pushed it under the mat. From what I hear, anyway. And now, of course, that the Doctor's turned into an unwitting first-base Kirk, the references are sneaking back in again.
As much as I'd like for Susan to have been pocketwatched, I doubt they'd pull that trick again--they'd have to think of something else. And I'd ask what this "E-Space" is of which you speak, but I suspect I shall find that out eventually.
(My sister is not really dead; she's totally a Time Lord. i can live with this. ayuppers.)
*nods* 'struth. Happens to all the dead people we like--of course, they go someplace way out of the way of the Time War, so they don't die, er, again. *coughs*
'Beware', huh? ...you wouldn't happen to have a source for the song, would you? >.>
Didn't the Doctor say "improbable"? Or was it "unlikely"...
Oh, you've got to see at least the first couple episodes of The Sarah Jane Adventures before she shows up in DW again!
Cooooer, you think she will? (Aaand i just looked on me harddrive & though i coulda sworn i had some of the episodes on there, i don't seem to see 'em now (along with Torchwood which is also missing :/)... i sure hope W just archived 'em somewhere....)
As much as I'd like for Susan to have been pocketwatched, I doubt they'd pull that trick again--they'd have to think of something else.
Yarr... clearly they need to come up with another gimmick >.>
And I'd ask what this "E-Space" is of which you speak, but I suspect I shall find that out eventually.
E-Space is where Adric is from. And tha's all you'll get out of me! (Unless you want more >.>)
'Beware', huh? ...you wouldn't happen to have a source for the song, would you? >.>
W recants on that song title & says it's "Be Prepared" ... from y'know, Lion King too.
Didn't the Doctor say "improbable"? Or was it "unlikely"...
It was totally "unlikely". Such pain. Poor Douglas. Poor forgotten & unappreciated Douglas! And him having been a Writer for Dr. Who & everything! *sighs dramatically*
< discreet> You know, if you friend settiai, you can get to her massive Brit-TV archives--Doctor Who, Torchwood, Sarah Jane Adventures, Life on Mars, Ashes to Ashes, Being Human...and Psych, for some reason. It's very convenient, is all that I'm saying. < /discreet>
Alas, I shall have to wait until I find out what E-Space is! But, uh, at least I'm on 'The Pirate Planet' now...that's...relatively close, isn't it?
'Be Prepared', eh? Still intriguing! And so I ask again: you got it on you? Or know of a place where it can be found? Because I am in a desperately viddy state of mind, and anything that could conceivably be done with just third-season clips is looking like the Holy Grail right now.
Ooooh, The Pirate Planet! Tha's the Douglas Adam episode! And one of my personal favorites... you can sense his humor all over the place it that one, in my opinion ^_^
i'm afraid we haven't got "Be Prepared" or i'd give it to you in a heartbeat! And man, that would totally be awesome to see & i'd just kill for you to make it, too. 'cause Jeremy Irons.
Ooooh, it's the Douglas Adams one? I knew it was the funny one, but I never thought to put the two together, for some reason...*is looking forward to it even more now*
I shall hit up the rest of the internets, then, to see if anybody else knows where to get the song. *does so*
All right, so, I got "Be Prepared"! And it is a totally awesome song, but, unfortunately, I think there are parts of it that do not really lend themselves to the Master. :\ He doesn't have any hyenas, for one, and the Toclafane aren't quite the same...still, it was a lovely idea, and there are many parts that would work marvelously.
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